Round Robin Tournaments

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Round Robin Tournaments

Postby Steve G » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:36 pm

Looks like Delray Beach will join Adelaide in the growing number of tournaments to take on the round robin format the ATP is pushing in 2007.

I decided to sticky this and we can list the tournaments that we know will be round robin next year.

Here's the list so far
1/1/07: Adelaide
1/29/07: Delray Beach
Last edited by Steve G on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Patrik77 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:05 pm

Here are the 13 tournaments that will try the Round Robin format:

1/1/07: Adelaide
1/29/07: Delray Beach
1/29/07: Vina Del Mar
2/19/07: Buenos Aires
2/26/07: Las Vegas
4/30/07: Estoril
6/11/07: Queens
7/9/07: Båstad
7/9/07: Newport
7/23/07: Indianapolis
7/23/07: Umag
7/30/07: Washington
10/08/07: Stockholm
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Postby Elikian » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:13 pm

Does anyone know what the point's situation will be in the RR events? It starts already in Adelaide, so it should be clear soon? Entry for the event closes in 2weeks.
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Postby Alex89 » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:51 am

Round Robin system...hahah what ajoke, this is whats going to ruin the game,
It's going to be a kindergarten
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Round Robin

Postby Tommy Sigstone » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:29 am

I agree Round Robin is for not hurting peoples feelings for being rubbish at sport. The only possible reason is to make more money as in the champions league and we all know that wasnt good for football and it wont be good for tennis. Tennis is a 'dog eat dog sport' and should not be sanitised.
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Postby Alex89 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:02 am

Yeah round robin should be left for little 10 yar old kids who need the experince, not for professional level, the atp is obviously trying to transform the sport into a 'marque' system with priamry aims at endorsing advertisation and commercialisation. Knock-out system is deteriorating and thats what made the sport so unique in the first place!!!
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Postby anttik » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:50 am

Hi.

Does anybody know what will be the entry ranking points from round robin draws:
- 24-player round robin?
- 32-player round robin?
- 48-player round robin?
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Postby Aguante Niemiz » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:13 pm

I find the round robin very interesting. It works good in the Master Cup. So it could be the same to the ATP Tour.
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Postby Super-Fabio » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:37 am

Round Robin Tournaments in 2007

As the deadline for the first week of events in 2007 is fast approaching, I would like to update you on the points, prize money and format of the Round Robin events that are going to be played in 2007.

First, let's talk about the points. Below you will find the table of points for all the events. There are a few important things that one needs to know with regards to the ranking points:


1.From quarterfinals on, everyone will earn the same amount of points, regardless of how they won their respective group. For example, the quarterfinals of Adelaide are worth 40 points for all players who lose in that round.

3. The second clarifying point is that points from the knockout stage and round robin wins are just for those who do not move into the quarterfinal stage of the event. For example, a player who wins in the knockout round, wins a round robin match and does not qualify for the quarterfinal stage will get 30 points for his participation in Adelaide. Had the same player played only in the round robin stage, won a match and did not qualify for the quarterfinals stage, he would earn 20 points in Adelaide.

2.The last important aspect with regards to points is that players who lose in the knockout stage or player s who do not win round robin matches will not earn any points. That is in line with the new ATP ranking procedure of not giving points to first round losers at all the other events. Only wins will give players points.

Image

Next topic is prize money. Below you will find the prize money breakdown for the tournaments that we currently have as round robin events but the list is subject to change. Here are a few pointers with regards to the prize money.

1. The most important thing that I want to point out is that an undefeated winner of a round robin tournament will get the same amount of prize money as he would in a straight elimination tournamen t with the same level of prize money.

2. If a player loses in the knockout round, he will be awarded the prize money listed below as knockout participation. Also, if a player fails to win a match in the round robin stage, he is guaranteed the amount of prize money listed as the RR participation category. Furthermore, round robin wins are worth between 2,000 and 2,500 (Dollars or Euros). The money won in the Round Robin stage will carry over. So, the winner's money does not include the earnings of a player in the round robin stage. For example, an undefeated tournament winner in Bastad will win 51,820 euros plus 4,000 euros from his round robin wins.

Image

The last thing I would like to clarify is with regards to the format itself. The formats are:


24 Round Robin Tournament – 8 groups of 3 players. Players will play against each other within the group. The 8 winners of the groups reach the quarterfinal stage and the tournament is played under the single elimination format from this point forward. Qualifying draw will consist of 12 players. Tournament winners will play 5 matches (except for qualifiers).

32 Hybrid Round System – 16 players participate in knockout round while the top 16 players wait in 8 groups (2 per group). The 8 winners of the knockout stage will be place d in th ose 8 groups, forming the 8 groups of 3 players. From this point forward, the tournament is played exactly like the 24 round robin event. Qualifying draw will consist of 16 players. Tournament winners that come from the round robin stage will play 5 matches and those players who come from the knockout stage will play 6 matches (except for qualifiers)

48 Round Robin Tournament - 16 groups of 3 players. Players will play against each other within the group. The 16 winners of the groups reach the Round of 16 stage and the tournament is played under the single elimination format from this point forward. Qualifying draw will consist of 24 players. Tournament winners will play 6 matches.

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Postby Gamass » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:50 pm

Super fabio grazie con te posso parlare italiano...come faccio a trovare i punti champions race del round robin? sarebbe importante x il fantatennis ke gioco con i miei amici.. ti ringrazio in anticipo
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Fiurst Round Points

Postby Shhh » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:21 am

"3.The last important aspect with regards to points is that players who lose in the knockout stage or player s who do not win round robin matches will not earn any points. That is in line with the new ATP ranking procedure of not giving points to first round losers at all the other events. Only wins will give players points."

I have obviously missed this rule change. Is this correct that a player will now score zero points for a first round loss? If so, does this apply from challengers right through to grand slams?
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Re: Fiurst Round Points

Postby Judio » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:36 am

Shhh wrote:I have obviously missed this rule change. Is this correct that a player will now score zero points for a first round loss? If so, does this apply from challengers right through to grand slams?


This cant be correct for the Mandatory events

Otherwise players won't bother showing up if they get 0 for losing first round.

Anyone notice that Queens has dropped off the Round Robin events now

and replaced by Stuttgart and Newport
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Postby Gamass » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:47 am

2.The last important aspect with regards to points is that players who lose in the knockout stage or player s who do not win round robin matches will not earn any points. That is in line with the new ATP ranking procedure of not giving points to first round losers at all the other events. Only wins will give players points

But that is worth also for all the other tournament? doha, chennai,acapulco etc... losing to the first round earns zero points?
or regards only the formula of the tournament with round robin and knockout?
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Postby Judio » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:26 am

An article in French "Tennis" Magazine explains how the matches will work
in the Round Robin

MATCH ONE

The two lower ranked players in the Group will play first

MATCH TWO

The Loser of match one plays against the high ranked player

MATCH THREE

The higher ranked player will play against the winner of match one.


TIES
If the Loser of match one manages to beat the high ranked player
and the high ranked player wins the last match....

Then all players finish on one win

Winner decided on percentage of Sets won
OR if needed
Winner decided on percentage of Games won
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Postby Judio » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:29 am

Next Question..

What happens in the quarter final draw??

Is it seeded before or after the RR is played

Does the Winner of the Round Robin group with the first seed in it go in to top of draw ??

or will the highest ranked winner of Round Robin Group get Number one seed???
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Postby JAC » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:12 am

Rulebook 2007 is aut.
Seeded before RR
Winner 1 RR group (with 1 seeded) in line 1 draw.
Winner 8 RR group (with 2 seeded) in line 8.
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Postby Judio » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:20 am

Please let me know if the following in the new rule book is an error??
Page 157 Round Robin Points Table

For an International Series $800K event
you get 20 Points for losing in Semi
and 11 for Losing in a Quarter Final

However in a Round Robin International Series $800K event
you now get 25 Points for losing in Semi and 13
for Losing in a Quarter Final

All other categories are consistent,
is this an error??
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Postby Malul » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:13 am

this is gonna be interesting,i hope to see lots of tied groups!

the question is if the audience is ready for this?
"i can´t win and you don´t want to"
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No points to 1st round losers? lol

Postby gray49 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:41 am

Super-Fabio wrote:Round Robin Tournaments in 2007
[i]
2.The last important aspect with regards to points is that players who lose in the knockout stage or player s who do not win round robin matches will not earn any points. That is in line with the new ATP ranking procedure of not giving points to first round losers at all the other events. Only wins will give players points.


This sentence does not correspond to ATP's Tennis Weekly, where they proclaim 5 rank points/1 race point to R32 for each Chennai and Doha tournaments. :?
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Xavier Malisse

Postby Rob & Stephen » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:24 am

You knew it had to happen, I just didn't think it would occur so soon. Xavier Malisse loses to Rainer Schuettler in Delay Beach round robin and then goes on to win the tournament. :roll:
I have to say that I was surprised :o that he qualified for the quarter-finals, as I had thought that it would have been Alejandro Falla from Colombia who would have progressed according to the ATP rules for this sort of thing. Either I'm being very dense :-k - am I the only person who can't work out those rules - or the draw is fixed. ;)
We absolutely love BEAR HUGS!!!!
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"Only wins will give players points"? Yes, but...

Postby gray49 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:27 am

SuperFabio wrote:

Only wins will give players points.

But we can now continue this sentence:

But not each win gives player a point.

Example: Igor Kunitsyn in Adelaide won in elimination round and twice in round robin (3 wins), but got only 40 points for quarterfinal, the same points as Gasquet and Spadea, who won only 2 matches each.
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Postby fran » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 pm

I`d been last week in the tournament that was hold in Buenos Aires and my experience is that the round robin system does not work out.
Many players tend not to make a big effort to win when they find that they cannot qualify to the next round, they retire during the matches or they don`t play their last matches.

I think that many players are not ready to play with this system.

My bet is to return to the normal draws.
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Buenos Aires

Postby Rob & Stephen » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:19 am

I coundn't agree more with Fran about the round robins at the Buenos Aires tournament. It got very confusing trying to work out who was to progress with all the changes in the draw that was made with players pulling out. :S Not being there, I could not comment on the attitude of the players, but it just does not seem to work. :KooKoo:
In the UK tennis magazine ACE, a reader wrote that it would have been a better idea to save the round robin until the quarterfinals, a 32 man tournament being knockout to this time. At this quarterfinal round robin stage, the players are split into two groups of four, with the winner going onto a knockout final. I know this sounds like a ripoff of the Masters tournament, but the reader states that it would include more of the top players and there would be more at stake for the players than in just trying to reach the quarterfinals. Maybe it might just stop all this confusion, then again maybe not. :shocked:
:? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
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petition against round robin

Postby bunny » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:21 am

Hi all,
You may have already seen this elsewhere, but here's an online petition against the now notorious Round Robin system.
It will be sent to ATP before they discuss the matter during Miami.
Please add your name if you agree with the petition starter! Thanx! :)

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html
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Postby ovg » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Surely after defending champion does not advance to quarters - James Blake in Vegas - ATP will have to reconsider this stupid confusing system?
How could James control whether or not another player defaulted? Would someone ever default for under the table money?
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Round-robin eliminated

Postby pabloJD » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:23 pm

Round-robin format is history. I'm glad about that.
It really wasn't working.
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