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doubles only

Postby skipper » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:13 am

do you thing its possible for anyone to be just a doubles specialist these days? i have a couple friends who are thinking about seriously doing this route and they are blowing off even entering singles and just going for doubles. they are pretty good at doubles but not bad at singles when they work at it but singles results not as consistent--is this smart to do or just laziness or professional suicide? they aren't that young anymore either so they realistically only have a couple years left, like maybe 3-5 years.
"Better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all", but of course, winning is preferable.
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Postby chamacoo » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:45 am

tell me their names and i let u know :)
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Postby CrazyDiamond » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:22 am

I dont think it's possible......since the ATP changed the rules.

Glenn got his Doubles Ranking to 75,and even with that ranking he basically could'nt get into the Main Doubles Draws.......so he stopped concerntrating on Doubles and instead gave his all to the Singles.

The big Tournaments want the top singles players to play Doubles,to draw the crowds.
For example(Im taking a guess here)......at UCLA this week.........if Tommy Haas feels like playing Doubles,he'll get a Wild Card into the doubles draw because he's a Big name....even though he's not a specialist Doubles player,and his Doubles Ranking is not good at all...let's see when the Doubles Draw is announced.
If he get's the Wild Card,he'll choose Glenn as his partner.
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Postby R. Jayakrishnan » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:56 am

It is tough to make a living as doubles specialists if you are in challengers (ranks below #125 or so). You make an average of may be a $500-750 a week even if you are winning some 5-6 titles in the 20 odd challengers you play. Too little money to even pay for the airtickets.

You CAN make a living as just doubles specialists if you are in ATP tour events (rank inside top-60 or so for making almost all events, but somebody inside top-100 can find enough events to play). Make a minimum of $750 for even entering the event, and at least an average of $2000 per week to survive. There are probably about 20 or 30 players who do make a decent living like that now.

The real problem is that it has become EXTREMELY difficult to move from the challenger level to the tour level. The maximum doubles rank that you could get to, at the challenger level is about #125, say about 400 points .. You need about 4-5 titles in challengers (50 or 60 points each) and a bunch of finals to even get to #125. But from there to take the rank to say #80 (about 750 pts) is very tough and virtually impossible by playing challenger doubles. This problem became worse once ATP reduced the entry spots for doubles ranks (so, most cuts are at around #150 to #225 in sum of rank). You really need somebody in the top-75 take you on and sign in with you or somethimg - which means the challenger doubles specialist needs to show up at the tour event and sign in and take a chance, or know players at that level etc.. All troublesome.

In fact, I think I have noticed only Fyrstenberg and Matkowski, two younger Poland who successfully made that move from challengers to ATP tour in the last 18 months or so (they got a wildcard at home in an ATP event and made a bunch of points in a hurry to make the jump, if I remember correctly) .. There may be a couple of others I haven't noticed.

Jason Marshall at #129 is an example of one of the highest ranked players who has played almost exclusively challenger doubles. He is quite good in doubles (and has occasionally tried singles qualies, etc, but it doesn't seem to work out for him). I am not sure how much higher he can go without getting into some ATP tour events. Tough.

So to summarize, you better be VERY good at doubles to think of coming up through challengers and then be good enough to somehow jump from #125 to #75 in doubles rank. Then you have made it if you are good. I would advice against trying it with just doubles.

Jay
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Postby Fee » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:33 pm

If you want to be a career doubles specialist go become friends with JanMichael. He helped Graydon get from college to the top 75 with his pull and ability to get wildcards, then he did the same for Travis Parrott. Now they are both in the Top 80, usually make ATP draws with an assortment of partners (or play Challengers). Both of them play just about every week (Travis less so because he's still not used to life on the road I guess). Then again, JMG might not have the same time of pull after this season so....
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Postby chamacoo » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:40 am

graydon became friend with doping as well 8) ...and that helps a lot.
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Postby Fee » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:08 am

I'd like to ask you, in the most polite way that I can possibly muster, to get your facts straight and not talk smack about a friend of mine. Perhaps you might take a minute to read about his case on the ATP site and rescue yourself from the swamp of ignorance you are currently swimming in.

Thank you.
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Postby Elina » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:15 am

I'm 100% with Fiona in this case.

Fiona wrote:I'd like to ask you, in the most polite way that I can possibly muster, to get your facts straight and not talk smack about a friend of mine. Perhaps you might take a minute to read about his case on the ATP site and rescue yourself from the swamp of ignorance you are currently swimming in.

Thank you.
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Postby chamacoo » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:44 am

And in the most polite way I can tell you that diuretic hydrochlorothiazide cleans from your body, in less than 48 hours, whatever you take in order to run like Superman. Even steroids. That's why it is banned. Btw, I'm a doctor, I do work with tennis players all the times (even Americans), I know what I'm speaking about. You are the one swimming in a swamp of ignorance.
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Postby dryeagle » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:03 pm

I'm not taking a position one way or another, but the Graydon Oliver situation is very interesting. By reading the ATP press release, it seems like Mr. Oliver was an innocent bystander, but by the Doctor's account it appears like the ATP is covering it up. If the drug is able to clear out any steroid in your body, then it may be impossible to ever determine what really happened.
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Postby skipper » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:42 pm

maybe so - but if they were doping and then become clean, perhaps they will have the same performance difficulties as marion jones & her beau are having in the us track olympic qualies going on now.....otherwise speculating about it is pretty much a waste of time....and often the wrong people get hurt from false accusations and vice versa...so let's talk about what we do supposedly know for sure.
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Postby dryeagle » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:19 pm

I'm not speculating, I'm just trying to look at two completely different opinions. The tennis player in question has a positive drug test on record. The ATP issues a statement saying that the player had no idea what he was taking since the ingredient was not listed on the prescription. But a doctor posts on this site that this drug is well-known to cover up all sorts of steroids. I don't know if we will ever see a dip in this player's abilities, it will be hard to tell since he is probably known more for this than his on-court play.
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Postby BoughtMyPoints » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:39 pm

Back on topic ...

The WC's at the slams for doubles are like gold dust to any aspiring doubles specialist. In singles, a w.c. saves you from playing qualies, in doubles it is EVERYTHING.

Personally, my strategy would be to skip the Challengers altogether as a pure doubles specialist. More chance to do well as an alternate at tour level and singles qualies. But it takes a certain fortitude to adopt this approach.

And Graydon got caught. Higher ranked American players have not been ... yet.
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Postby dryeagle » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:46 pm

BoughtMyPoints wrote:Back on topic ...

And Graydon got caught. Higher ranked American players have not been ... yet.



Is there something that you know?
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Postby BoughtMyPoints » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:52 pm

dryeagle wrote:Is there something that you know?


No, I'm just swimming in one of the two cesspools of ignorance identified in this thread. Then again, maybe both. So far, I have not had to deal with one of my idols or friends being implicated.
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Postby Fee » Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:46 am

What the doctor didn't tell you is that anything classified as 'food supplements' in the US is not regulated very well. Those Vitamin C tablets that you are taking don't really have to contain Vitamin C. That St. John's Wort herbal remedy could be dried broccoli, or worse. Any so called 'herbal remedy' in the United States can contain just about anything, and make just about any claim it wants to without breaking the law (larger breasts, sure take this pill). So, an over the counter sleep aid that claims to be all-natural can be just about any damn thing in the world, and depending on the losers making it, the lab and manufacturing facility can be in just about any condition. Tainted supplements? Sounds like a real possibility to me. (Listed to Dr. Dean Edell on the radio and you'll know what I mean).

And why would an athlete playing in hot, humid conditions knowingly take a diuretic in the middle of competition? Those drug tests are unannounced, so its not like he would have been planning for anything. Have you ever seen Graydon? If he's taking steroids, then that is one failed medication.
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